Im designing a new Scooter! (help!)

[James Parry]

Hi everyone, I'm james!

I'm currently working on a project to design a brand new scooter for teenagers.
I am early on in the project and am keeping my mind as open as possible.

I would like to design a scooter that is efficient on all terrain, i.e. can go down pebbly hill sides and is generally good fun, and also fairly easy to transport... (however this isn't set in stone and this is an early brief idea, hence why I'm here.)

After doing some research already the smaller wheeled scooters designed for skateparks and the such (pvc/urathene wheels) seem to not perform well on even mildly rough surfaces, and the brakes are non existent in the wet. Also,
-How important is a folding mechanism??
-Wide handle bars or shallow handlebars??
-Larger deck or smaller deck??
-Braking systems??
-How important are the bearings to a user?? (do bearing with a higher ABEC rating improve speed and spin?)
-Do you favour a particular material for any part of the scooter?
-Brands you like? Have you ever used/ looking into using an off-road scooter, and if so what are your thoughts?
-How important is a folding mechanism??
-And anything else you would like to share!

If anyone can share their thoughts or experiences it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
James.

 

[instinctscooter]

https://shop.razor.com/John-Radtke-Diamond-Dirt-Scooter/

you should look at this too see what is already available. depending on what you want will depend on the design. foldable scooters have pretty much been abolished for trick use as the folding mechanism is a weakness. even before one peice decks came out people would always bolt the folding mechanism to remove play from the headtube (stop the bars wobbling back and forth) as it is less comfortable to ride and makes tricks harder to land as it is less stable. obviously for transporting the scooter a folding mechansim could be handy however you can always take the bars off with an allen key which is fairly easy if you know anything about scooters.

bearings are standard in all scooters in the industry (608 which is the same size as skateboard bearings)

brands that are popular are lucky, district, grit and madd gear pro. hmowever on this forum and many more experienced riders prefer brands such as proto, tilt, ethic, addict etc.

as for materials here are the indusstry standards:

grips: rubber or silicon
bars:4130 chromoly or sometimes 6061 aluminium, alu bars are much lighter but also substantually weaker, 4130 chromo is much more common. having heat treated bars is better as it is stronger
clamps: usually some type of aluminium, 6061 or 7075 for more expensive brands
headsets: integrated headsets are the norm, same as the headsets in bmx bikes, these are the bearings which make the bars spin in case you don't know
forks: 6061/7075 aluminium or 4130 chromoly are the best, some companies use cheaper aluminium or normal steel but 4130 chromo/7075 alu are best, again alu is lighter (and much more common) but steel is stronger.
deck: always aluminium, usually 6061 in more expensive brands, sometimes 7-series alu or 6082 have been used. heat treatment again is good and the footplate is usually extruded, the headtube is sometimes forged which is a good thing as it is stronger than welded counter parts.
wheels: usually 6061/7075 aluminium core with 88a PU, for dirt scooter tyres are used, the best ones can officially take up to 100psi and have cast metal cores, i have never owned a dirt scooter so I am by no means an expert on these.
Griptape: same as for skateboards however you do not need as much.

brakes are either sring brakes or flex fenders. A flex fender is a peice of spring steel or aluminium which is bent into shape and is usually drilled into the scooter deck.

as for the size of scooters it depends. This is personal preference however over recent years the size of scooters have increased significantly. it is easier to cut down the size of a scooter than it is to extend the size of parts. also size also depends on the size of the person riding it to a great extent.

hope this helps, any more questions just ask away. also if you do not understand any terminology just ask as well

 

[James Parry]

well this is excellent information! thanks very much!!

I am fully immersing myself in the scooter world, having purchased a rather cheap one from a local retailer. its a 'zinc street scooter' its foldable, has clip in handlebars (which are very short) and 100mm PVC wheels. I hate everything about it... its handles wobble and where it folds is a clear weak spot (as you mentioned) the wheels just don't work on rough surfaces because of the size.

after riding it everywhere with me for the last week I have found a lot of issues with it. if I were to take a route of designing a scooter with tyres, are you aware of any manufacturers of larger scooter wheels, and what kind of sizes are common?

as to the folding, it makes sense not to have a folding mechanism as its is a structural weakness, and that's definitely not something you want on an off-road vehicle!!

can anyone shine any light on deck size also?? I believe people like a lower deck as it puts less pressure on your knees if its too high.

thanks again instinctscooter for your reply its given me a lot to think about!

james.

 

[GRAYDONSHEDSSTREET]

I think dirt scooter decks should be a minimum of 5 wide and 22 long for maximum comfort. Bars should be at least 25 tall x 22 so that riders can have comfortable bars that aren't hard on the back and can be cut down if needed. Make sure to research companies like tsi and proto that don't make cheap parts. Scooter riders want quality parts that won't break. For off road/dirt scooters you need lots of strength so it's ok to have a heavier scooter (most dirt scooters seem to be 10-15 pounds

 

[Bror Svensson]

well this is excellent information! thanks very much!!

I am fully immersing myself in the scooter world, having purchased a rather cheap one from a local retailer. its a 'zinc street scooter' its foldable, has clip in handlebars (which are very short) and 100mm PVC wheels. I hate everything about it... its handles wobble and where it folds is a clear weak spot (as you mentioned) the wheels just don't work on rough surfaces because of the size.

after riding it everywhere with me for the last week I have found a lot of issues with it. if I were to take a route of designing a scooter with tyres, are you aware of any manufacturers of larger scooter wheels, and what kind of sizes are common?

as to the folding, it makes sense not to have a folding mechanism as its is a structural weakness, and that's definitely not something you want on an off-road vehicle!!

can anyone shine any light on deck size also?? I believe people like a lower deck as it puts less pressure on your knees if its too high.

thanks again instinctscooter for your reply its given me a lot to think about!

james.

Bar sized range from 20 - 25" wide and 20 - 27" high. I personally ride 25" wide and 26.5" high and im around 5'9-5'10 so that should give you some hints to how high bar you want.

Normal scooter deck have the specification of: A headtubangle (how straight the bars sit, a lower not means that its mor tilt to the rider while a higher number means more straight) of 81 - 83 degrees. A footplate the length of 19.5 - 22", it depends on how big feet you have. The plate comes in sizes from 4.33 - 5", to you the difference between 4.33 and 4.5 might sound like nothing but it rides completely different. The footplate nowadays i often boxed shaped which improves the abilty to do grinds on rails and boxes. The headtube (where the headset bearings sit) is usually around 4.5", you want the work to stick up about 2" above the headset bearings in the headtube. The backend of the deck is cut out in most deck to fit a 110mm wheel and a brake, most scooters use a 8mm diameter bolt.
I think thats all, my english is not the best since im from sweden but i hope it helped some, the deck of a scooter is forsure the hardest part. Getting a strong and reliable deck has taken companies around 8 years now to get, but they are still along way from perfect if you compare it to the hard set standards in bikes/bmx.

also take a look at this video

 

[Devin DePriest]

From what I see, you really don't have an idea of what you're doing when it comes to scooters yet. The scooter industry is a lot bigger than what an outsider would expect. From my 11 years of experience with scooters, I can tell you right now, that you probably won't make it in the industry. And if you do, you will most likely struggle. Now I'm not trying to scare you away or be a dick, I'm only warning you about what you're thinking about doing, because us riders, are trying to expand our sport, and the best way for us to do that, is to support companies ran by other riders. And, for us, to see a company pop up with no name behind it, doesn't get us excited at all. Again, not trying to scare you away, but, if you still want to go with it (I mean, scooters are pretty cool, huh), then I'll gladly put in my two cents.

Ok.

So like what was said before, folding mechs are a no-no. Folding mechs haven't been used since the razor pro model released back in '04(?). One piece usually the way to go.

Now for bars. Over the years, bars have gotten MUCH larger than they were like 10 years ago. Industry standards are around, 23-28 inches tall and 21-24 inches wide. Now bars have gone even bigger than that too, but few riders ever really go past those numbers. And, like what was said before, chromoly is the best material for bars.

For decks, like bars, have gotten much bigger over the years. Industry standard I would say is about 4.5-5.0 inches wide and 20-22.5 inches long. And as far as extrusions go, you don't need some fancy extrusion to make a good deck. Most favored decks are essentially just rectangles with slightly modified bottoms.

Brakes, are pretty much just bolted down to the decks now. Springs aren't used anymore. Some involve rubber pads, but they're mostly just bolted down and they just flex down to the back wheel. Seems obvious to us, but I'm not quite sure about you, but front brakes aren't needed either.

I personally prefer lower grade bearings because I've found them to be a bit stonger than the fancy "precision" bearings out there. Mostly because I absolutely obliterate my bearnings. I would shatter them every couple months until I started using lower grade bearings. But I know most people do prefer the fancier higher grade ones because they do tend to roll better.

Chromoly for the bars. Aluminum has been used for bars in the past, but... They just suck so avoid aluminum bars haha. Aluminum for the decks and forks. Although steel is sometimes used for forks but is often avoided because they tend to weigh more. But I prefer my scooter to be more front heavy so I do ride a pair of steel forks in the front. But that's really just preference.

Brands I prefer... Proto, Tilt, TSI, Addict (RIP), Ethic, Flavor. A few brands to just avoid, Madd Gear, Fasen, Apex.

Dirt scooters, I wouldn't even get involved with. They're already dying out. Which kind of sucks because they were pretty fun.

One thing that wasn't mentioned was a compression system. I won't describe what it is and I'll just let you do research on it, but it's basically what keeps everything in place. There are multiple kinds, but the best one you can get is called an SCS. And that stands for Standard Compression System. Very Important to have.

I guess that answers your questions haha. If I were to make a suggestion, I would say to do a lot of homework on this stuff. Go on websites like" Sky High Scooters" and "Freestyle Depot" to see what they have to offer and maybe watch some scooter videos to surround yourself a little more in the scooter culture. And read around the Forums here. There is PLENTY of info here. Probably more than you even need.

Edit: Can't believe I just did this lol

 

[Cole]

From what I see, you really don't have an idea of what you're doing when it comes to scooters yet. The scooter industry is a lot bigger than what an outsider would expect. From my 11 years of experience with scooters, I can tell you right now, that you probably won't make it in the industry. And if you do, you will most likely struggle. Now I'm not trying to scare you away or be a dick, I'm only warning you about what you're thinking about doing, because us riders, are trying to expand our sport, and the best way for us to do that, is to support companies ran by other riders. And, for us, to see a company pop up with no name behind it, doesn't get us excited at all. Again, not trying to scare you away, but, if you still want to go with it (I mean, scooters are pretty cool, huh), then I'll gladly put in my two cents.

Ok.

So like what was said before, folding mechs are a no-no. Folding mechs haven't been used since the razor pro model released back in '04(?). One piece usually the way to go.

Now for bars. Over the years, bars have gotten MUCH larger than they were like 10 years ago. Industry standards are around, 23-28 inches tall and 21-24 inches wide. Now bars have gone even bigger than that too, but few riders ever really go past those numbers. And, like what was said before, chromoly is the best material for bars.

For decks, like bars, have gotten much bigger over the years. Industry standard I would say is about 4.5-5.0 inches wide and 20-22.5 inches long. And as far as extrusions go, you don't need some fancy extrusion to make a good deck. Most favored decks are essentially just rectangles with slightly modified bottoms.

Brakes, are pretty much just bolted down to the decks now. Springs aren't used anymore. Some involve rubber pads, but they're mostly just bolted down and they just flex down to the back wheel. Seems obvious to us, but I'm not quite sure about you, but front brakes aren't needed either.

I personally prefer lower grade bearings because I've found them to be a bit stonger than the fancy "precision" bearings out there. Mostly because I absolutely obliterate my bearnings. I would shatter them every couple months until I started using lower grade bearings. But I know most people do prefer the fancier higher grade ones because they do tend to roll better.

Chromoly for the bars. Aluminum has been used for bars in the past, but... They just suck so avoid aluminum bars haha. Aluminum for the decks and forks. Although steel is sometimes used for forks but is often avoided because they tend to weigh more. But I prefer my scooter to be more front heavy so I do ride a pair of steel forks in the front. But that's really just preference.

Brands I prefer... Proto, Tilt, TSI, Addict (RIP), Ethic, Flavor. A few brands to just avoid, Madd Gear, Fasen, Apex.

Dirt scooters, I wouldn't even get involved with. They're already dying out. Which kind of sucks because they were pretty fun.

One thing that wasn't mentioned was a compression system. I won't describe what it is and I'll just let you do research on it, but it's basically what keeps everything in place. There are multiple kinds, but the best one you can get is called an SCS. And that stands for Standard Compression System. Very Important to have.

I guess that answers your questions haha. If I were to make a suggestion, I would say to do a lot of homework on this stuff. Go on websites like" Sky High Scooters" and "Freestyle Depot" to see what they have to offer and maybe watch some scooter videos to surround yourself a little more in the scooter culture. And read around the Forums here. There is PLENTY of info here. Probably more than you even need.

Edit: Can't believe I just did this lol

what devin said

 

[Crusty]

well this is excellent information! thanks very much!!

I am fully immersing myself in the scooter world, having purchased a rather cheap one from a local retailer. its a 'zinc street scooter' its foldable, has clip in handlebars (which are very short) and 100mm PVC wheels. I hate everything about it... its handles wobble and where it folds is a clear weak spot (as you mentioned) the wheels just don't work on rough surfaces because of the size.

after riding it everywhere with me for the last week I have found a lot of issues with it. if I were to take a route of designing a scooter with tyres, are you aware of any manufacturers of larger scooter wheels, and what kind of sizes are common?

as to the folding, it makes sense not to have a folding mechanism as its is a structural weakness, and that's definitely not something you want on an off-road vehicle!!

can anyone shine any light on deck size also?? I believe people like a lower deck as it puts less pressure on your knees if its too high.

thanks again instinctscooter for your reply its given me a lot to think about!

james.

.This is a hardcore freestyle community.you may want to try a different site if you are into just cruising scooters try Letskickscoot.com its a site for people who like commute and cruise on their scooters.As for ideas for making a scooter try making a one piece replacement deck for the razor a5 lux.One of the most common commuting scooters.

 

[James Parry]

Thank you all for your help, you've provided me with a huge amount of information and leads.
james.

 

[Nathann]

If you're going to make a deck, make it like this.
http://i.imgur.com/oh56Wij.png

Have boxed sides that screw on to the rest of the deck and has a grinding plate on the bottom.
Maybe the rest of the deck can slide into the plate and then you screw it in place.

 

[Cole]

If you're going to make a deck, make it like this.
http://i.imgur.com/oh56Wij.png

Have boxed sides that screw on to the rest of the deck and has a grinding plate on the bottom.
Maybe the rest of the deck can slide into the plate and then you screw it in place.

wattttttttt

 

[James Hoffmann]

If you're going to make a deck, make it like this.
http://i.imgur.com/oh56Wij.png

Have boxed sides that screw on to the rest of the deck and has a grinding plate on the bottom.
Maybe the rest of the deck can slide into the plate and then you screw it in place.

Eight year old technology if I understand you right, TSI did that way back in the day

 

[Billie Rainbow]

Always remember

"They've got a cute little forum where they answer any of your questions, we'll be able to knock 'em down with the first product line. It feels like a crime to make money this easy!"