My_Names_Jordan
Steel Member
Yeah whenever i go to skateparks and see how gay and annoying all the kids make the sport it makes me wanna just give up all hope for scooters and go to bmx.
IF YOU GIVE A FUCK ABOUT SCOOTERING CLICK HERE
- Thread starter parrish
- Start date
Yeah whenever i go to skateparks and see how gay and annoying all the kids make the sport it makes me wanna just give up all hope for scooters and go to bmx.
Especially in Australia man. Four years ago there were 2-3 online shops (skater HQ I think, moonwalk and some rollerblade shop in melbourne) where you could buy parts and everything was so expensive. I used to just wish that the sport would become saturated and we would get more options for parts and see the prices come down.
I regret ever thinking that.
Hamish C
Steel Member
Haha I remember the days when Ultra Pro completes with Seasoned bars and Inward forks were like 700 bucks on Skater HQ
jasen111
Steel Member
No shit, i remember a few years ago i had to pay $150 for a pair of eagles or phoenix wheels, now i can get a better pair of wheels for half that price
Yeah and the only place you could get protos was on moonwalk for like $70 a piece. You could tell who the stupid kids were because they paid $20 for a bolting plate and some bolts for their pro models instead of paying like $3 at the hardware shop for a few bolts.
Billie Rainbow
Silver Member
I honestly don't believe the sport will turn out like the wishful thinkers of this thread seem to hope it ends up (rider owned everything) because of this reason; Corporations pursuit of profit and trendsetting.
Even riders want to make a brand that sets the trends/standards and some have it thusted upon them, but getting both demographics( Kids On Scooters/Actual Scooter Riders) is next to impossible thanks to us. We may not outnumber but we heavily influence any KOS that has been to a park or has seen an ASR in the flesh.
MGP, has the KOS demographic, is a corporation. I know the guy behind it, you'd think he could rob it blind, but you would assume he either can't to the full potential he hopes for or more than likely he is going very slowly to make a sustainable profit for years to come. Truth is he won't (or hasn't yet) rob it blind, he manages it in a fashion enough to run the company until the next line comes out and pay any investors off. He can and has every right to do that and even if he wanted to he is one of 3 companies with the reputation to do both demos and we all know it. As long as we keep holding back a standardization of parts, then when we won't end up like the hardware sector of skating and blades, simple, low cost, standardized. Don't ask about apparel, videos etc. I couldn't care less about that crap, not my field of expertise.
What I'm personally waiting for is the age of the full potential of materials, think BMX now. We aren't close yet, we are like 90s BMX. I do know a few working on it, but will be the most important thing to happen to us. This is where we will see a change in the outlook of a scooter.
R&d isn't a problem, people not willing to pay out of their comfort range is why we haven't got much product as advanced and still as simple as BMX (skating is simple but not overly advanced tech wise)
Either way this doesn't affect me in any way, iv'e got my way I'm going with what I'm doing and it doesn't need a market to hold up. You got enough money to buy a $600 scooter? That's enough to make your own if you know where to go.
TL; DR we got a long ass time before we end up anything like skating money wise, so don't worry about it unless you gonna make your own stuff and want to become successful
Even riders want to make a brand that sets the trends/standards and some have it thusted upon them, but getting both demographics( Kids On Scooters/Actual Scooter Riders) is next to impossible thanks to us. We may not outnumber but we heavily influence any KOS that has been to a park or has seen an ASR in the flesh.
MGP, has the KOS demographic, is a corporation. I know the guy behind it, you'd think he could rob it blind, but you would assume he either can't to the full potential he hopes for or more than likely he is going very slowly to make a sustainable profit for years to come. Truth is he won't (or hasn't yet) rob it blind, he manages it in a fashion enough to run the company until the next line comes out and pay any investors off. He can and has every right to do that and even if he wanted to he is one of 3 companies with the reputation to do both demos and we all know it. As long as we keep holding back a standardization of parts, then when we won't end up like the hardware sector of skating and blades, simple, low cost, standardized. Don't ask about apparel, videos etc. I couldn't care less about that crap, not my field of expertise.
What I'm personally waiting for is the age of the full potential of materials, think BMX now. We aren't close yet, we are like 90s BMX. I do know a few working on it, but will be the most important thing to happen to us. This is where we will see a change in the outlook of a scooter.
R&d isn't a problem, people not willing to pay out of their comfort range is why we haven't got much product as advanced and still as simple as BMX (skating is simple but not overly advanced tech wise)
Either way this doesn't affect me in any way, iv'e got my way I'm going with what I'm doing and it doesn't need a market to hold up. You got enough money to buy a $600 scooter? That's enough to make your own if you know where to go.
TL; DR we got a long ass time before we end up anything like skating money wise, so don't worry about it unless you gonna make your own stuff and want to become successful
^How do you expect someone to justify marketing a $500 fork to a user base of primarily 12 year old children. Their parents will only pay so much.
If we want innovation there needs to be a few changes within our expectations and traits first:
- We need to stop bitching that all of the parts look the same. This forces companies to believe that people want different parts, not just solid parts.
- We need to actually give feedback to companies who show interest in innovation, rather than posting "fukin shit parts broke mine on a fly0ut 54o sup3rm4n br1fl1p inw4rd r3w1nd kunt" on a forum.
- We need to support riders that ask for our opinions. I know one of the Bens copped some shit a while ago for posting threads asking what we wanted to see in a new deck for a company that he rode for or invented or some shit. These are the opportunities we need to cherish rather than fucking off at the OP.
- We have to convey to potential investors and innovators that there are riders the genuinely care for good parts and will pay for them.
- We also have to convey that even though people will pay for good parts we will not pay out our arse unless the parts are genuinely worth it. I don't just mean from a purely economic point of view (labour+materials+marketing) but also from a research point of view. If someone spends 1000 hours worth of man hours consulting engineers and taking tafe classes about the properties of different materials then I agree this should be reflected in the price. Want a real world example? Take a look at the price difference between Intel and AMD chips. Intel spends billions on research so they can innovate, and this is why processors in the same range as AMD competitors are often more expensive (i5-4970K vs. FX-8320). The FX-8320 actually has a higher clock speed and 4 virtual cores but still comes in cheaper than the i5 because intel have poured so much research into all of their chips.
If we want innovation there needs to be a few changes within our expectations and traits first:
- We need to stop bitching that all of the parts look the same. This forces companies to believe that people want different parts, not just solid parts.
- We need to actually give feedback to companies who show interest in innovation, rather than posting "fukin shit parts broke mine on a fly0ut 54o sup3rm4n br1fl1p inw4rd r3w1nd kunt" on a forum.
- We need to support riders that ask for our opinions. I know one of the Bens copped some shit a while ago for posting threads asking what we wanted to see in a new deck for a company that he rode for or invented or some shit. These are the opportunities we need to cherish rather than fucking off at the OP.
- We have to convey to potential investors and innovators that there are riders the genuinely care for good parts and will pay for them.
- We also have to convey that even though people will pay for good parts we will not pay out our arse unless the parts are genuinely worth it. I don't just mean from a purely economic point of view (labour+materials+marketing) but also from a research point of view. If someone spends 1000 hours worth of man hours consulting engineers and taking tafe classes about the properties of different materials then I agree this should be reflected in the price. Want a real world example? Take a look at the price difference between Intel and AMD chips. Intel spends billions on research so they can innovate, and this is why processors in the same range as AMD competitors are often more expensive (i5-4970K vs. FX-8320). The FX-8320 actually has a higher clock speed and 4 virtual cores but still comes in cheaper than the i5 because intel have poured so much research into all of their chips.
Billie Rainbow
Silver Member
you really think youd ever pay 500 for a fork let alone market them to a kid on scooter(under 14)? bmxers wont even pay over 250 and its alot more material and r&d than most scooter parts. Think more around 100-150, 180 if a very small production line. thats what id call top of the line pricing. not going ti or anything like that but at least alu 7075 t6 as the minimum, sure its 2-3 times the price of 6061 but ethic and addict sell the forks made of 7075 t6 for $100 aus. We aren't using cr-mo everything yet which i do see working and succeeding and we havent used the stuff that the high end bmx brands use so we are yet to know.
ill get your other points when i reture from a ride
ill get your other points when i reture from a ride
Don't tell the weight freaks that high end parts will be made out of chrome moly. In my opinion the future of the sport lies with titanium.
Obviously I'm not the one calling the shots and I definitely won't be the one stupid enough to make high end scooter parts for a living. So idk, maybe I'm wrong, but this sport is going nowhere and it's going there fast regardless of part quality.
Obviously I'm not the one calling the shots and I definitely won't be the one stupid enough to make high end scooter parts for a living. So idk, maybe I'm wrong, but this sport is going nowhere and it's going there fast regardless of part quality.
Hamish C
Steel Member
Na, chromo would be better than titanium. Bmx I suppose weight matters but on scooters weight isn't a big issue IMO and titanium would be too expensive.
I want diversity in deck materials, and companies trying out new things with decks not just making a deck thats following a trend then painting it trendy colours. *cough* Envy *cough*
I wouldn't say scootering is going nowhere, in a few years the standard of parts has COMPLETELY changed, from bolted decks, homemade reinforcements and plastic wheels to what it is now.
It's little kids that are changing the sport, they are annoying and give scooters a bad name and its them that buy all the MGP, Envy, Fasen etc. Scooters that make these companies so rich (which leads to them marketing to kids even more and keeps the negative stereotype of scooter riders alive) but in time, those kids will become better riders, get rid of the entry level scooters and start buying from legit companies, which improves the sport as a whole and keeps the legit companies alive, even if it takes a while.
I'm just hoping the scootering stereotype wears off, like when you see a little kid on a skateboard or bmx you dont associate them with a legit skateboarder or bmx rider, yet little scooter kids are associated with older scooter riders.
Another thing scooter riders need to stop doing, is thinking a company can make a "perfect part"
NO part is immune from general fatigue, and we need to stop making a big deal out of it when a company's seemingly unbreakable part eventually breaks.
I want diversity in deck materials, and companies trying out new things with decks not just making a deck thats following a trend then painting it trendy colours. *cough* Envy *cough*
I wouldn't say scootering is going nowhere, in a few years the standard of parts has COMPLETELY changed, from bolted decks, homemade reinforcements and plastic wheels to what it is now.
It's little kids that are changing the sport, they are annoying and give scooters a bad name and its them that buy all the MGP, Envy, Fasen etc. Scooters that make these companies so rich (which leads to them marketing to kids even more and keeps the negative stereotype of scooter riders alive) but in time, those kids will become better riders, get rid of the entry level scooters and start buying from legit companies, which improves the sport as a whole and keeps the legit companies alive, even if it takes a while.
I'm just hoping the scootering stereotype wears off, like when you see a little kid on a skateboard or bmx you dont associate them with a legit skateboarder or bmx rider, yet little scooter kids are associated with older scooter riders.
Another thing scooter riders need to stop doing, is thinking a company can make a "perfect part"
NO part is immune from general fatigue, and we need to stop making a big deal out of it when a company's seemingly unbreakable part eventually breaks.
MattThomMakesMeWarmInside
Silver Member
what'd your username used to be, mic?
Bror Svensson
Gold Member
i do not think that the the material is the problem in ethic forks, they are just poorly designed
ethic forks are just one of those products that you have to be a certain rider in order to ride them, in which case they'll last you forever. but other people would probably break them within a few weeks.
i dont see how cutting of like a quarter inch of the top so you can use them with SCS would affect the strength at all
issac p
Silver Member
I don't really care so much if a brand is rider owned or not anymore, just as long as they truely want to give back to the sport. That's why I back brands like phoenix and scooterzone. Tom holds meetings with his riders to discuss what they want which is tight. Scooterzone basically only has scooter riders working at their shops, and even though james actually owns epic as well as scooterzone, he put darger in charge of designing the parts to get the best results.