Religion

[dre]

I don't know if it is true or not, but some say that after death human body becomes lighter for 29 grammes. Is that a weight of soul? I don't know, but I believe in existance of human's soul. But not because we are dominating species and we are the only one who can love, it can be prooved scientifically, it is an evolutional process, it is time for our planet to have such advanced creatures that can create religion, art and culture itslf. The human soul is the immortal mind, consciousness, whatever...
Now about the religion itself. I believe that God exists. It can not be prooved or disprooved scientifically, but I see it in every life situation, in every passer-by's sight, everywhere!!!(Maybe because I beleive in it, but anyway) When I do something wrong, the life itself shows me the right way by punishing somehow (not physically, but consciently sometimes; if u haven't understood that, read F.Dostoyevskiy "The Crime and the Punishment", my favourite book from the curiculum)Thaths, by the way, prooves the humans soul existance (we know whats right and whats wrong in contrast to animals (example:black widow kills her "husband" after the coitus) Of course it can be prooved scientifically once again, that it is an evolutional process, even dogs understand that to urinate at home isn't good bla-bla-bla... No! I mean the consience! It is higher than urinating at home, It is higher than something just biological! Just want to beleive it.)
Also I think tha God caused our existance. Nothing happens randomly! Just imagine how small is the possibility of creating the same world: 1.The Universe was Born 12 billion years ago and even though I know the Great Explosion theory, I can not explain the whole process, why it has happened 2. It is 4-dimensional. Other conceptions makes atoms and moleculas very unstable. Especially the 4th dimension... Time... It is a subject of scientific and philosophical discussions and it is very hard to speak about it. At less, without it the Universe could be nothing more than just a dull frame. 3. Solar system and Earth. It is 150 million km far from Sun. Perfect conditions to start the evolution to have an intellectual creature.
Too many coincidences, can't you see that? I have a feeling that it all has been created by Someone (the God) artaficially. But for what? I don't know. Maybe it was terribly boring for God to spend an eternity alone. So he created the universe so, as we see it now. (My thoughts about the eternity is in the "Black Metal thread")

Excuse my English. I mean it is hard to speak on such theme even in Russian so thanks a lot if u have understood me

That is probably the weight of waste being expelled after death, because when you die all your muscles relax and everything flows out; crap, piss, you name it lol.

I don't know Pete... Even though faith dose a lot of good, it also dose a lot of bad.

Every War (I don't care what war you think of, pick ANY one) can be rooted to money/power or religion.

People get too caught up in what their religion states and what other religions state that they completely contradict them selfs. I know one of the 10 commandments is you should not kill yet you have people all over the world "Killing in the name of god"

There is always two religious groups killing each other and killing innocent people in the process.

I guess what im getting at is, religion causes a lot of problems like war, racism and general conflict. Im am not saying there should be no such thing as religion, im just saying lets look at both sides on the coin here.

Almost all wars can be rooted to power, money, or expansion. Religion is most often an extremely convenient and accepted excuse. I'm not saying that this is always the case, but I probably wouldn't go so far as to blame every single war directly on religion, because there are definately other factors involved.

 

[Travis House]

We are not talking about other factors here bud, the problem is that Religion is still a factor and unlike power/money its suppose to bring people together and promote peace, love, harmony, respect... Everything God wanted. Therefore it shouldn't even be linked to sure terrible things like war and discrimination.

 

[danielwarwick]

I'm not too sure about what i believe and what i don't believe. I'm Catholic and i go to church every Sunday, but i strongly disagree with alot of things my church says. Like i hate it when our priest is talking, and he says things about how wrong abortion is, or saying that your not going to have eternal happiness in heaven if you don't believe that the bread and wine is the body and blood and Jesus Christ. I fucking hate it the worst when they make references to "Marriage is to be shared between a man and a women, and a man and women only". God created everyone to be equal, so why the fuck is it right for someone to be yelling at someone or making fun of someone for feeling love for someone of their own sex. I don't think god would be one of the kids in your "cool" group who bash any gay person, and i hate it when people say things like, "God doesn't approve of Gays". Maybe in the bible it did say Marriage is between a man and a women, but i highly doubt that God would give a fuck who you like, and what sex they are. Thats what pisses me off the most, is when people protest something like war, or gay marriage, or anything. And put the words, "God would want us to fight in Iraq!", Or, "God would want us to ban gay marriage!", You actually think god is going to believe two people in love cant get married?, or any of this shit?

 

[Travis House]

Danny, I agree with you totally. Religion has why too much power in the world nowadays, and thats mostly why I don't go to church anymore, every time he spoke I gritted my teeth in anger.

Im a stong supporter of gay marriage. Christians have this image that they are suppost to be nice and caring people yet they say being gay is a choice, which it is clearly not. Who here would want abuse from other all thier life? I cant get to a stong point right now, because Im gonna miss my bus....

 

[eirepro]

I will not be PMing you, you wont get banned or harassed if you just keep up being decent. Please, explain what your trying to get at here.

God gave us free will but he would guilt trip Abraham into killing his own son?

Thats pretty much saying "yeah you can do whatever you want, but if your devoted to me you will kill your son... Oh by the way, the 10 commandments way you have to be devoted to me, so if you don't your going to hell.....BUT remember its your choice"

He tested His Faith. He wanted to see if Abraham would do as he said even though he didn't have to. Also, he stopped Abraham at the last moment. And even If there was no religion, wars would stll be around for power, Religion is a fair excuse for war, but power generates hate.

And I don't know why you should care what people believe. In Ireland Atheists (and eople who don't believe in general) always shove it into Catholics faces. We don't ask why they don't believe, we don't care why they don't believe, but they try to stick it to us anyway. And then they use 'Evolution' as their ace in the spade. And Okay, its pretty concrete, but (A) 1000 years ago it was believed humans came from the sweat of giants, and (B) In 1000 years, we will still believe differently, but Religion has been around, since the Dawn of (comprehensed) Humans. Also, maybe Evolution is the answer to how, and not why we're here. I mean, sure we evolved but no one knows what gave us that ability. Where'd we get that ability? et cetera.

 

[Pete Pachota]

Now if there was no religion, most people would end up being selfish bastards, killing and stealing from each other for their own good. This would lead our civilization nowhere - if there even was any civilization.

I highly disagree with this statement. Morals and values are RARELY thought by the church. My parents never once brought God into the picture when teaching me what was wrong and right. I don't think saying that with out religion there would be total chaos, we can still have morals and no religion, we can still love other people without religion. There are not millions of people just pissed off because they want to kill someone or rob someone but can't because of religio, if they are having this thought and are serious about it, in no way will religion stop them.

Okay. But this is YOU. You are an intelligent person, one that can speak about such subjects as theology, which is what we're doing here. Same probably goes to your parents, who must have brought you up to be as smart as they are. But the vast majority of people in the world are the ones who care about nothing but to survive the next day and, if possible do it as effortlessly as they can.

Another thought guys, whats your take on woman and what do you think about the Vatican's take on woman?

What do you mean by 'take on women'? The fact that the role of women in the catholic church is not as significant as the role of men? The reason of this is the case of the original sin, as it was Eve who got fooled by the serpent (maybe there's a better interpretation of this fragment, mr I-can-understand-bible-better-than-the-theologists-of-the-catholic-church?); the thread about women being less worth than men has been carried on in other books of the old testament.

 

[Travis House]

I will not be PMing you, you wont get banned or harassed if you just keep up being decent. Please, explain what your trying to get at here.

God gave us free will but he would guilt trip Abraham into killing his own son?

Thats pretty much saying "yeah you can do whatever you want, but if your devoted to me you will kill your son... Oh by the way, the 10 commandments way you have to be devoted to me, so if you don't your going to hell.....BUT remember its your choice"

He tested His Faith. He wanted to see if Abraham would do as he said even though he didn't have to. Also, he stopped Abraham at the last moment. And even If there was no religion, wars would stll be around for power, Religion is a fair excuse for war, but power generates hate.

And I don't know why you should care what people believe. In Ireland Atheists (and eople who don't believe in general) always shove it into Catholics faces. We don't ask why they don't believe, we don't care why they don't believe, but they try to stick it to us anyway. And then they use 'Evolution' as their ace in the spade. And Okay, its pretty concrete, but (A) 1000 years ago it was believed humans came from the sweat of giants, and (B) In 1000 years, we will still believe differently, but Religion has been around, since the Dawn of (comprehensed) Humans. Also, maybe Evolution is the answer to how, and not why we're here. I mean, sure we evolved but no one knows what gave us that ability. Where'd we get that ability? et cetera.

To me, that is sick. I know exactly why he did it but my case stands that free will was hardly in place there.

I am doing no such thing as shoving it in catholics faces. This is meant to discuss intelligent matters in a intelligent manner, if you can't handle other people opinions on life, this really isn't the thread for you.



And to Pete. Section #1 of your post: You got me.

Section #2: Well what I wanted to get at was: why do the church that the giver of life is the male when clearly it is shared, if not more to the female? Sure the bible states Eve was created by one of Adams ribs but thats over.

Its true you need sperm to make a child, but you also need an egg. Without one or the other, its hopeless (not getting too technical here)

 

[RyanV]

I will not be PMing you, you wont get banned or harassed if you just keep up being decent. Please, explain what your trying to get at here.

God gave us free will but he would guilt trip Abraham into killing his own son?

Thats pretty much saying "yeah you can do whatever you want, but if your devoted to me you will kill your son... Oh by the way, the 10 commandments way you have to be devoted to me, so if you don't your going to hell.....BUT remember its your choice"

The act of Abraham doing what God told him to was Abraham putting his faith in God. Abraham knew that God would find a way to work the situation out (hence the ram).

And also, in order to not go to hell you have to Admit that you are a sinner, accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and commit to following him. Jesus paid the price for our sins (including transgressions of the 10 commandments) by dieing on the cross. Once you accept him you cannot go to hell. The rest of the commands in the bible are ways for living your life that is pleasing to God (and a pretty decent way to live at that) If I break a commandment, because I am saved I wont go to hell, I will just repent of the sin and move on, knowing it has been paid for.

 

[Travis House]

I think thats a great way to live, by all means. Its people who take everything literary in the bible and catholicism who I have trouble dealing with, telling me IM a bad person and bluntly STUPID for even questioning if there is a god. Telling me im going to hell no matter what because I don't follow exactly what the bible says. Saying its people like me who cause problems in our world. Saying they pity me because I will never live life as I was ment to do...

If there is an afterlife, I don't think because I was born with a mind that wanted more then what was given I should be doomed to hell for the rest of eternity.

If god is such a loving guy, he will understand that sometimes people want to know more then just stories, sometimes people need facts or at least alternate solutions.

As humans we have the right the question what we want but for the people that do, a lot of the time, from what I see, they are looked down upon harshly. As if it makes them different people before you knew they had an open mind and strive to go past what is told to them.

Needless to say, I ran into the said catholic extremist today and we didn't get along too well.

 

[Pete Pachota]

Section #2: Well what I wanted to get at was: why do the church that the giver of life is the male when clearly it is shared, if not more to the female? Sure the bible states Eve was created by one of Adams ribs but thats over.

Its true you need sperm to make a child, but you also need an egg. Without one or the other, its hopeless (not getting too technical here)

Look at it this way: the earliest human societys were based on fulfilling the basic needs off all the people. When it comes to defense, acquiring food etc. men are superior to women due to their stronger built body. Along the progress of civilization, the role of men became less and less significant. So when the book of Genesis was written by Moses it became also a proof that God supports male dominance, which, as Ive said before, has been expanded in all sorts of jewish and catholic books and documents.

Okay, what you all guys think about the theory of creationism? Im bringing this up once more because Maciej Giertych, the polish member of the European Parliament has been speaking about him supporting it, evolution being false, the fact that neandertal people still walk on Earth (as he was shown a picture of an american boxer who 'had all the physical traits of a neanderthal man') and dinosaurs living at the same time as men (proof: dragon/monster legends). Fine, the guy is and idiot. But what is more, he is the father of Roman Giertych, the RIGHT WING IDIOT HOMOPHOBIC EDUCATION MINISTER OF POLAND. He has announced that 'he's not an expert though' and that he wants both evolution and creationism theories be taught at school. The vice-minister said that the evolution theory is completely false. Im posting about all this crap because, according to some polls, 51% of american people believe that God has created human 'directly', less than 10,000 years ago, which seems pretty outrageus to me.

 

[Timur]

Okay, what you all guys think about the theory of creationism? Im bringing this up once more because Maciej Giertych, the polish member of the European Parliament has been speaking about him supporting it, evolution being false, the fact that neandertal people still walk on Earth (as he was shown a picture of an american boxer who 'had all the physical traits of a neanderthal man') and dinosaurs living at the same time as men (proof: dragon/monster legends).

I heard something like that. Some scientists think that yeti (snowmen) are survived neandertal people. There are also a few stories that tell about the kiddnaping of young Yakutian ladies by these snowmen. Who knows, maybe they want to breed a human-yeti-hybrid to revenge humanity for what happened 10,000 years ago (if I am not mistaken this is an official date of neandertal extermenation by homosapiens)

About conscience: I agree with you Pete. This inner voice is a part of evolution and socialization, but I want to believe that it is a voice of my soul. As I said in Black Metal thread, what you believe is true. If you believe in miracles, they happens, if you believe in soul existance and afterlife, they really exist and if you think that God exist (the last phrase is not very correct for christian beliefs, I mean God exist believe you in it or not)

 

[Travis House]

Section #2: Well what I wanted to get at was: why do the church that the giver of life is the male when clearly it is shared, if not more to the female? Sure the bible states Eve was created by one of Adams ribs but thats over.

Its true you need sperm to make a child, but you also need an egg. Without one or the other, its hopeless (not getting too technical here)

Look at it this way: the earliest human societys were based on fulfilling the basic needs off all the people. When it comes to defense, acquiring food etc. men are superior to women due to their stronger built body. Along the progress of civilization, the role of men became less and less significant. So when the book of Genesis was written by Moses it became also a proof that God supports male dominance, which, as Ive said before, has been expanded in all sorts of jewish and catholic books and documents.

Okay, what you all guys think about the theory of creationism? Im bringing this up once more because Maciej Giertych, the polish member of the European Parliament has been speaking about him supporting it, evolution being false, the fact that neandertal people still walk on Earth (as he was shown a picture of an american boxer who 'had all the physical traits of a neanderthal man') and dinosaurs living at the same time as men (proof: dragon/monster legends). Fine, the guy is and idiot. But what is more, he is the father of Roman Giertych, the RIGHT WING IDIOT HOMOPHOBIC EDUCATION MINISTER OF POLAND. He has announced that 'he's not an expert though' and that he wants both evolution and creationism theories be taught at school. The vice-minister said that the evolution theory is completely false. Im posting about all this crap because, according to some polls, 51% of american people believe that God has created human 'directly', less than 10,000 years ago, which seems pretty outrageus to me.

I don't know man... sounds pretty unlikly but in this world there is a lot of suprizes.

I know a lot of people that look totally like caveman, so that statement makes me laugh. Just because someone can have all the traits of a neanderthal dose not mean he is a direct desendent.

One question, are Yetis actual proven beings? Im not sure

 

[Jordan Jasa]

dont yetis fall under the sasquatch/loch ness monster category? im not to sure about their exhistence but who knows? a good site about creationism vs evolution and information for atheist and agnostics would be: [link=hyperlink url][/link] http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/index.html http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html theres a whole lot of information about those things there. I believe that God created humans and stuff. I wasn't too sure about it until last summer when at my mom's church this guy and his family came to teach about creationism. He had lots of evidence and things proving that evolution isnt real. From what I remember, almost all of the evidence for evolution, like bones and teeth and stuff, actually came from monkeys and pigs and stuff. They were just mistaken for other human species.

 

[Kevin Vannauker]

That website's really interesting, whenever you guys have time, read some articles on there. ^

 

[Pete Pachota]

I wasn't too sure about it until last summer when at my mom's church this guy and his family came to teach about creationism. He had lots of evidence and things proving that evolution isnt real.

Please be detailed? And I think that I might only believe someone that tries to bail a scientific theory if this person is a scientist of proper field. Also how come the remains of, for example, human ancestors be really monkey bones if there's no creature living today with bones looking like that. Also please note that creationism is contrary not only to the theory of evolution but most fields of science associated with Earth such as biology, geology, astronomy, physics and more.

 

[Travis House]

Im with Pete, I would like to hear more on what he said.

 

[Jordan Jasa]

I wasn't too sure about it until last summer when at my mom's church this guy and his family came to teach about creationism. He had lots of evidence and things proving that evolution isnt real.

Please be detailed? And I think that I might only believe someone that tries to bail a scientific theory if this person is a scientist of proper field. Also how come the remains of, for example, human ancestors be really monkey bones if there's no creature living today with bones looking like that. Also please note that creationism is contrary not only to the theory of evolution but most fields of science associated with Earth such as biology, geology, astronomy, physics and more.

i don't remember the guys name, but i do remember some things. he had a slideshow presentation each night. i'm pretty sure that he was an actual scientist like a professor he had pictures where he and his college student went on an archealogical dig, and they found evidence for creationism. i think he started as a skeptic but he began to realize the evidence against evolution. if you look on the links i had earlier, they have a lot of interesting articles. im pretty sure the guy's last name was hanson. i don't know if any of that make sense. %-6

 

[Gnome]

there's this really cool thing i found called Taoism, its about how everybody's cool and government causes hatred. ive been a Taoist for a while now its really cool. maybe if you dont know what to do in life (other than scootering) you should check it out.

 

[Travis House]

Elaborate a little?

Link to some information?

 

[Jordan Jasa]

[link=hyperlink url][/link] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoist yay...the religion thread is back...