Politics

[yamamsmells]

None, well since i'm not old enough to vote and partially because I don't care anyway. Politics over heres pretty fucked up, I mean cmon, Gordon Brown as the prime minister - hes a joke, along with the other mp's who just claimed anything haha.

 

[dre]

thank you for pointing that stuff out danny.

but the amount of people who die in our country is insurmountably surpassed by the amounth of people who die waiting in lines to get their surgeries in canada/UK. there was actually a case where someone litterally had a baby in the waiting room of a hopital. we need reform in the area of lawyers. malpractice insurance is 100,000 dollars a year just in premiums for some doctors. this is why medical care is so expensive. we need to reform this so that it's much much harder to sue for malpractice than it is currently. also, one thing i think the government should intervien on is if a docter works at a government clinic/hospital, the government should be aloud to control their salaries. THAT IS IF THE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYS THEM. if doctors are at a private/family owned clinic, the government shouldnt do anything. do you agree?

but with theories aside, let's get our heads out of the clouds.
1. we gotta get out of iraq, out out. out for good.
2. the war in afganistan is a war of necessity, obama said it himself.
3. WE CAN'T AFORD ANYTHING ELSE!!!

the president needs to sit down and look at things that the government is spending money on. if it's necessary, keep it. if it's not, cut it. we have a 12 TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT!!!

That's true about the wait times in Canada/UK vs. the states, but the thing is you are comparing two genuinely defunct healthcare systems (in those particular countries). I'm very much supportive of a single-payer system, but the fact of the matter is if you don't do it correctly it's just as bad. IMO what they're doing some places in Europe (ie. Switzerland) works well in comparison - you have a combination of basic healthcare coverage, but you also have a subsidized and private sector, so if you have the money to cover an important surgery, you can reduce your wait time.

 

[danielwarwick]

That's true about the wait times in Canada/UK vs. the states, but the thing is you are comparing two genuinely defunct healthcare systems (in those particular countries). I'm very much supportive of a single-payer system, but the fact of the matter is if you don't do it correctly it's just as bad. IMO what they're doing some places in Europe (ie. Switzerland) works well in comparison - you have a combination of basic healthcare coverage, but you also have a subsidized and private sector, so if you have the money to cover an important surgery, you can reduce your wait time.

bingo, perfect summary. there's a problem when you get billed $1,600 to have an ambulance check you out after a wreck. literally, matt's girlfriend got in a wreck and ambulance came and checked us out, I said I was fine and didn't even set foot in the ambulance.

what comes in the mail 10 weeks later? a bill for $1,600. i have comprehensive health insurance also.

what most people don't know is hospitals charge so much knowing they're not going to receive the money back, with a good lawyer or just yourself spending a lot of time online reading everything you can often pay about 1/10 of what a hospital bills you..problem is 99% of people don't know this.

or you can do what my dad did, call the ambulance company (it was a private company, wreck happened in a small town in between houston and austin) and basically say fuck off and that they did nothing for me, didn't pay the bill.

 

[DonaldM]

The biggest problem with Universal Healthcare is the money. Sure you can say the government has spent more money on less important things, however, in this case, it isn't the government who takes it the hardest. The problem with Universal Healthcare is that it takes away from the doctors! Being a government organization, the doctors will get much less pay, affecting the quality of their care.

You can say 'why don't doctors just go into a private company?' It wont work! Private hospitals are going to get a lot less patients and will lower their funds. And again, doctors are in the same situation.

Ok, maybe the choice between universal healthcare and your own healthcare is the best solution.. No. The fact is is that there will be NO choice! Most people pay for there healthcare through their jobs. For instance, I have had a fantastic plan with Kaiser for over 3 years through my current job. They sat us down recently and told us that they are cutting our 401k and lowering our health insurance simply because it is cheaper and they need the money. If the universal healthcare plan goes into effect, there will be no hesitation to switching to the government funded plan.

Everything will fall back down to government funded health because it is cheaper. Private hospitals will fail and completely vanish simply because there wont be enough patients to keep it running.

 

[ColteR LammeY]

Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes, expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education and other stuff like that. And if we did have Government health care it would greatly reduce patient flexibility so if people in serious condition might have to wait or something like that.... like Canada. With the purposed health care bill (I think its still purposed I haven't watched the news in for ever) healthy people will have to pay for the health care for smokers, obese people etc. And that is let me think... a large step toward SOCIALISM, which I may remind you is not what the founding fathers had in mind for our country's future.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120344047&ps=cprs

 

[Grahamk]

Public hospitals are great, there's a lot of horror stories and shit but it really isn't bad. I've been in a few times - go in with a broken arm, wait about one hour, get x-ray'd, cast put on and I was out in a few hours, all free no problems.
You can say what you like about waiting too long and stuff, but it beats people dying because they don't have the right insurance or can't afford an operation. That must be so unfair.

 

[Riley Hughes]

The biggest problem with Universal Healthcare is the money. Sure you can say the government has spent more money on less important things, however, in this case, it isn't the government who takes it the hardest. The problem with Universal Healthcare is that it takes away from the doctors! Being a government organization, the doctors will get much less pay, affecting the quality of their care.

You can say 'why don't doctors just go into a private company?' It wont work! Private hospitals are going to get a lot less patients and will lower their funds. And again, doctors are in the same situation.

Ok, maybe the choice between universal healthcare and your own healthcare is the best solution.. No. The fact is is that there will be NO choice! Most people pay for there healthcare through their jobs. For instance, I have had a fantastic plan with Kaiser for over 3 years through my current job. They sat us down recently and told us that they are cutting our 401k and lowering our health insurance simply because it is cheaper and they need the money. If the universal healthcare plan goes into effect, there will be no hesitation to switching to the government funded plan.

Everything will fall back down to government funded health because it is cheaper. Private hospitals will fail and completely vanish simply because there wont be enough patients to keep it running.

exactly. also, look at medicare. the gov't said that it would cost 10 billion, it ended up costing 15 billion in the first year. now, it costs something like 150 billion. sure, there are more people now, but 10 times as many people? no. everything costs more than they say it will. and the dems who want it passed aren't going to tell the truth if they can help it. also, it's just an estimate. who knows what healthcare will cost. 1 trillion? i would guess more like 4 trillion.

Public hospitals are great, there's a lot of horror stories and shit but it really isn't bad. I've been in a few times - go in with a broken arm, wait about one hour, get x-ray'd, cast put on and I was out in a few hours, all free no problems.
You can say what you like about waiting too long and stuff, but it beats people dying because they don't have the right insurance or can't afford an operation. That must be so unfair.

almost nobody dies because of that, it's a common misconception. if you need an operation to save your life and don't have insurance, the state will eat the difference. if somebody has cancer and is gonna die anyway, this doesn't happen, but if you're in critical condition after a car wreck, the public hospital will pay for it.

 

[danielwarwick]

man, I've gotta stop reading this thread, too much misinformation to be honest. everyone shouting RAH RAH UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE TOO MUCH MONEY.


you..are..plain..wrong. our healthcare system is one of the shittiest and most expensive in the world, the economist had a perfect article about a month ago saying how a single payer system for the US would cost less long term than our current system.

oh, and doctors making less is a falsehood, they get bonuses for encouraging healthy behavior in foreign countries, not for prescribing medicine like it's candy.

ugh, done arguing in here.

 

[DonaldM]

man, I've gotta stop reading this thread, too much misinformation to be honest. everyone shouting RAH RAH UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE TOO MUCH MONEY.


you..are..plain..wrong. our healthcare system is one of the shittiest and most expensive in the world, the economist had a perfect article about a month ago saying how a single payer system for the US would cost less long term than our current system.

oh, and doctors making less is a falsehood, they get bonuses for encouraging healthy behavior in foreign countries, not for prescribing medicine like it's candy.

ugh, done arguing in here.

Do you want me to cite my sources? I can come back with a slew of facts and statistics

 

[Riley Hughes]

man, I've gotta stop reading this thread, too much misinformation to be honest. everyone shouting RAH RAH UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE TOO MUCH MONEY.


you..are..plain..wrong. our healthcare system is one of the shittiest and most expensive in the world, the economist had a perfect article about a month ago saying how a single payer system for the US would cost less long term than our current system.

oh, and doctors making less is a falsehood, they get bonuses for encouraging healthy behavior in foreign countries, not for prescribing medicine like it's candy.

ugh, done arguing in here.

hahahaha? our current system costs over a TRILLION DOLARS over the coarse of 10 years?? i dont think so. also, its not arguing its debating

and healthcare covering illegals and abortions...

 

[MattThomMakesMeWarmInside]

bingo, perfect summary. there's a problem when you get billed $1,600 to have an ambulance check you out after a wreck. literally, matt's girlfriend got in a wreck and ambulance came and checked us out, I said I was fine and didn't even set foot in the ambulance.

what comes in the mail 10 weeks later? a bill for $1,600. i have comprehensive health insurance also.

what most people don't know is hospitals charge so much knowing they're not going to receive the money back, with a good lawyer or just yourself spending a lot of time online reading everything you can often pay about 1/10 of what a hospital bills you..problem is 99% of people don't know this.

or you can do what my dad did, call the ambulance company (it was a private company, wreck happened in a small town in between houston and austin) and basically say fuck off and that they did nothing for me, didn't pay the bill.

this is true. I made a trip to the hospital to check out some chest problems, was no big deal, and they billed 1200 dollars. Our insurance payed what they thought it was worth, 200 dollars, and it was all good.