why do companies over price
- Thread starter scootermark
- Start date
Chris Weik
Steel Member
Supply and demand type thing here
Example:there's a large amount of people who want blue grippers so they make them for 30 for the pair and sell them for 80 a pair because people will buy them
Example:there's a large amount of people who want blue grippers so they make them for 30 for the pair and sell them for 80 a pair because people will buy them
Dom Marconi
Silver Member
No, it shouldnt. Besides, most bike forks are about 150 bucks.
Anyway, look at a BMX stem. Most are about 60-70 bucks. Those are machined, anodized aluminum. The stem uses much less material than the fork, yet the stem costs nearly as much. The fork also requires a large block of aluminum, which nearly half of is turned into waste. The waste is recycled, but there is still some money lost.
Aluminum is also a far more expensive material than chromoly, or most steel alloys for that matter.
BMX forks, on the other hand, are just metal that is spun into shape, if butted, and the bent and welded to a forktube, which only has minor routering on it.
Once again, the only highly overpriced scooter parts that I can think of is Phoenix decks, which only cost about $50 to produce, after all expenses.
michaelpytel
Bronze member
as big as scootering is getting there is still few demand for a busines, so as supplyer they have to rais there prices in order to maintain thier bussiness expenses. if they were to have a large increese in demand, overall prices would decrease. since theres so much competition and that can be a good thing as far as no monopoly's or oligopoly's but it limits how much each company sells. thats why scooter part are expencive. Also parts like scs are unique, so they can charge whatever they want if you want them youll pay it. now theres a few other options but becouse no one decided to low ball they will all stay high. the only reson the prices will drop is if there is a competitor with an equaly valued product for a cheaper price.
Renegade Scooters
I got myself banned.
This is why Renegade Scooters is going to be selling the deck for so much less than other people. First off we are going to cut out the middle men so there is a lower price for you guys. We are also aware of what the parts cost to manufacture and are aware that if you manufacture a product that is as good or better then the best available and sell it at a cheaper price with more options you will capture the market and make a higher profit because more people are willing to purchase your parts.
Sorry we are taking so long to get this deck out. We promise it'll be worth the wait.
We had a backpack containing all business plans, information, contacts, names, emails, parts, money, laptop, camera and video camera stolen. So we had to restart from scratch.
Sorry we are taking so long to get this deck out. We promise it'll be worth the wait.
We had a backpack containing all business plans, information, contacts, names, emails, parts, money, laptop, camera and video camera stolen. So we had to restart from scratch.
Renegade Scooters
I got myself banned.
You are incorrect. Way off and they are very much so overpriced.
The correct price for extrusions are:
$2625 - - - Aluminum die charge(CNCing of the mold they push the metal through)
$2.51 - - - Price per pound for 6061 T6 aluminum.
A minimum order for the size die that a scooter deck uses is 500 pounds which makes the actual price for the first 500 pounds of deck extrusions, which equates to about 225 Renegade deck platforms, only $3880 with each additional 225 decks being only $1255 or $5.57 per deck at 20 inches each in length. You have to pay the die charge only one time. They will automatically re CNC a new die if the old one is worn out which happens after about 80,000 pounds of material has been pushed through.
Other costs are as follows:
Milling of the deck depends on how extensive the milling is.
Welding is cheaper the more you do because they pay the person by the hour which usually totals about 60 per hour so the more you do the quicker the person gets the hang of the piece he is working on and can operate quicker and more efficiently cutting costs.
Anodizing totals about 3 to 4 dollars per deck.
CNCing of the Renegade scooters headtube is about $1500 for the tooling program and whatnot then it costs under fifteen dollars to CNC the headtube.
All in all the entire deck cost us about $37 for the first run including the die charge and about $30 for every run there after depending on finishing techniques. That leaves us $67 profit of which we have to buy packaging materials. So in the end we are left with about $65 profit from the sale of one deck.
We are selling our decks for $100 for the entire one piece welded, integrated deck extrusion with a cnc headtube, brake included. We are not including a sealed headset with the deck at first but may do so in the future.
vertx scooters
Member
We have been in the manufacturing business for a long time. We own and operate several CNC machines. For those of you wondering what a CNC machine is, CNC stands for Computer Numeric Controlled. Essentially you program the machine to do what you want and it does it. The term CNC Machine covers a pretty broad spectrum of equipment. I would equate this to the term "Vehicle". Is it a car, bus, plane, truck, boat etc. etc. There are machines for doing just about every operation you can imagine but no single machine does it all. Yes they are expensive - both to buy and to operate. The $31K figure that was tossed aroung earlier is not for a modern production quality machine I assure you. I'm not saying you can't find something to make some parts in this price range but you would not want your livelihood depending on it. Actual costs of a lower production vertical mill are in the $60K - $150K range. When you get into a higher production horizontal mill the costs are much higher - you can plan on the price tag starting at about $150k and going up pending the options. A typical entry level machine here is $200k - $250k. Now that you have the machine, you need to buy tooling for it so you can actually make something. Another $20k just to get started. This is already long winded enough but you can see that manufacturing costs are not cheap.
ztkAZ
Member
email me back please:0
instinctscooter
Silver Member
ermm costly
codybryant
Member
because they can
Phoenix One
PHOENIX One
Danny is clearly on crack here. No way in hell he can make his Renegade deck in the USA for $37 each much less $30. I know because i have been producing Phoenix's for almost 2 years and i am always looking at ways to be more efficient and try to improve my profit margins.
I think most of you understand that we are in business to stay in business and to do that we have to be profitable. Each time we have added a new product we have to invest money to get that product made. If we didn't make a profit we would have no way to fund R&D, Sponsorships, payroll for our employees and product liability insurance just to name a few of our major expenses.
I made a decision when i started Phoenix that i would support the growing number of Scooter retailers and not sell direct to the consumer. That is why we have built such strong relationships with Inward, ECX, Scooter Zone, etc... But guess what? They need to make a profit to stay in business too.
There are many steps that go into making a Phoenix deck and it costs us about double what Danny is claiming he can make his Renegade decks for.
Here are the real steps that go into making Scooter decks (not including tooling and setups):
1) Purchase Extrusion material for deck, downtube, head tube and rear wheel spacers
2) Cut and CNC all 3 parts to make weldable assemblies
3) Weld scooter decks (my welders can weld about 5 - 6 per hour)
4) Heat Treat decks
5) Shot Peen each deck
6) Anodize
7) Laser engrave logo
8) Ream and Face each standard deck by hand to ensure perfect headset fit and alignment
9) Install rear axles and other hardware and package for shipment
This does not include the time/fuel it takes to move the decks around between each of these processes.
I take a lot of pride in the way we manufacture Phoenix decks and i hope you all realize that while we need to be a profitable company we are not out to rip anyone off.
shot peen/anodize/laser engrave
what does shot peening do?
i understand anodizing, but honestly some people would rather have a cheaper deck instead of a colorful one. so thats an easy one to cut out.
Rear wheel spacers? you could make them the same size as bearing spacers, eliminating the need to have to make those yourself.
simple cost effective things..
what does shot peening do?
i understand anodizing, but honestly some people would rather have a cheaper deck instead of a colorful one. so thats an easy one to cut out.
Rear wheel spacers? you could make them the same size as bearing spacers, eliminating the need to have to make those yourself.
simple cost effective things..
Phoenix One
PHOENIX One
dpnelson31
Steel Member
Phoenix One... I respect you. I'm saving up to buy a Phoenix.
Carson .
Steel Member
one of my good friends dad owns about 5 cnc machines adding up to around a mill..
i took him a proto scs and ased him out of curiosity how much would it cost to duplicate this..EXACTLY ..he brought up the specs on his computer and how much the lock of alu would cost..then he asked.."And how much do they sell these for?" ..i said "around $65"
he started laughing and then said i can make this for around $35-$40 for you...he didnt make one because i KNOW that is like a copywrite or sum crap...but i was surprised..
i took him a proto scs and ased him out of curiosity how much would it cost to duplicate this..EXACTLY ..he brought up the specs on his computer and how much the lock of alu would cost..then he asked.."And how much do they sell these for?" ..i said "around $65"
he started laughing and then said i can make this for around $35-$40 for you...he didnt make one because i KNOW that is like a copywrite or sum crap...but i was surprised..
Carson .
Steel Member
Yeah I kno that
